Welcome to POLITICO’s West Wing Playbook, your guide to the people and power centers in the Biden administration. Send tips | Subscribe here | Email Eli | Email Lauren President JOE BIDEN and his staffers have taken great pains over the past few years trying to make sure that the public and the media do not normalize DONALD TRUMP and the election denialism that defined his presidency. So when Biden staffers found out Monday morning that DAVID PLOUFFE — a well-respected BARACK OBAMA alum to whom they often turn for advice — was teaming up with former Trump counselor KELLYANNE CONWAY for a new podcast on the 2024 election, several people inside the West Wing and Wilmington campaign headquarters weren’t thrilled. “Trump is openly running to rip apart American democracy, and David Plouffe cares so much about stopping him he’s teaming up with the founder of ‘alternative facts’ and a chief Trump enabler to profit off an election he ought to be in the trenches fighting to win,” said a Biden campaign aide, who was granted anonymity to speak candidly. “This will not end well — maybe this is the real ‘Bowling Green Massacre’ KAC knew was coming all along,” the person snarked. Other aides to the president begged off discussing the new podcast pairing of the managers of the winning 2008 and 2016 campaigns. Plouffe, they noted, still holds a lot of influence in the Democratic Party, and few were eager to piss him off and risk professional consequences. Some half-heartedly offered a more optimistic view that there could be a benefit to having a top Democratic communicator reaching an audience that didn’t include party diehards. The Plouffe-Conway partnership has tested the Biden world perception of the role that media should play when addressing Trumpism. The president and his top aides have been vocal about their belief that the press corps should be far more critical in its coverage about threats to democracy and lies about election integrity. “I have my role” in protecting democracy, Biden said at the White House Correspondents’ Dinner last month. “But, with all due respect, so do you.” Conway admitted in her book that Biden won the 2020 election. But she’s also a loyal foot soldier for Trump and was even rumored to be weighing a return to his orbit. That Plouffe would partner with her has bothered some progressives, who argue that it is giving an imprimatur to Trump's brand of politics. “It's important to police the boundary, no matter whether the practical impact is small or large,” said BRIAN BEUTLER, a liberal journalist and author of the “Off Message” newsletter. “There’s something important about stigmatizing people who don’t have a commitment to truth, who were at least sort of willing to go along with Trump’s post-election lies through Jan. 6. It’s just bad practice.” The flip side of the argument is one that Democrats make in more hushed tones: that the party does, in fact, need to speak to people outside of its echo chamber and, more philosophically, try to understand them. Some Biden staffers insisted that the Plouffe news hadn’t been all that hot of a topic in their circles. “We have a lot of respect for him and keep in close touch. Everyone knows what his values are. Democrats debate Republicans all the time. This really hasn’t come up much,” said a Biden official who also worked for Obama. Seasoned Democratic and Republican operatives have collaborated on media projects for eons (former Obama advisers DAVID AXELROD and ROBERT GIBBS co-hosted the political podcast “Hacks on Tap” with Republican political consultant MIKE MURPHY), although joint ventures featuring Trump veterans have been less common. That may be because those alums have either remained loyal to Trump or become so jaded as to turn into resistance heroes. Conway is among the few who have tried to maintain ties to Trump and credibility with the broader public, no easy feat (as RONNA MCDANIEL can attest after her hiring and immediate firing by NBC). Still, some Biden aides felt like Plouffe went a step too far. He could have, as some aides suggested, just continued with the podcast he’s hosted in previous election cycles, interviewing mostly Democratic campaign operatives and political reporters along with the occasional Republican. For some in Biden’s orbit, the decision to team up with Conway was an unfortunate home-grown example of the political class’ willingness to abandon their principles when there’s a buck to be made. Conway, who initially declined to comment, ultimately couldn’t resist. She texted us hours later with her thoughts on the anonymous consternation among Biden aides: “Imagine your job is ‘communications’ for Joe Biden, who shakes hands with the air and, according to a majority of Americans, lacks the physical and mental sharpness to do the job; or for Kamala Harris, who can’t speak complete, cackle-free sentences without a TelePrompter." “Instead of spewing venom in blind quotes against David Plouffe and me, the miserables could tune in or join us on the show. They might learn a thing or two.” Plouffe also initially declined to comment. But in response to Conway, and minutes before our deadline, he emailed us: “Trump’s mental decline is apparent for all to see — mangling words, talking nonsense and sleeping and farting his way thru a criminal trial. When he’s lucid, he’s extorting oil and gas ceos in return for swampy favors and suggesting pregnant women will be monitored by the state. His return would be an unmitigated disaster … So this podcast will have plenty of punditry but my hope is also the view of practitioners who can talk about mechanics of things like early vote, changes in the electorate and debates and conventions. “But to be clear, these won’t be kumbaya sessions.” MESSAGE US — Are you KELSEY DONOHUE, deputy communications director for the first lady? We want to hear from you. And we’ll keep you anonymous! Email us at westwingtips@politico.com. Did someone forward this email to you? Subscribe here!
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